Yahoo IM – April 3-4, 2003

Jen: i wished i was as good as taking advice as i am at giving it
Jen: or that i could give it to myself and actually listen
: lol
Jen: its been a confusing week
Jen: and just when i have a decision made, i talk myself out of it
Jen: enough to make me wanna kick my own ass
Jen: my poor playlist has been all kinds of confused
Erick: That maked me think of that scene in liar liar
Jen: i don’t know what it is, always calms me
Jen: lol buh
Jen: i wouldn’t smash my face with a toilet seat
Erick: lol
Jen: i’d throw myself off a bridge or somn
Jen: or out of a moving vehicle

Erick: ummmm…no thats not good
Jen: lol duh
Erick: youd be better off with the toilet seat
Jen: i’ve had my moments this week
Jen: lol
Jen: i even went so far as to make sure the knows my wishes
Jen: this thing with granny and grandpa has me thinking about all kinds of stuff
Jen: ya never know when somn is gonna happen
Erick: tell me about it.

Yada, yada yada….

Jen : ya know what?
Erick : huh?
Jen : you hurt my the other day
Erick : How? With that offline?
Jen : um yeah
Jen : asshole
Erick : Im sorry. I was grumpy lol
Jen : obviously
Jen : i was cussing you all day
Jen : actually i was gonna break things off with you if you got online that night
Jen : i was a pissed off bitch
Erick : I kinda gathered that
Jen : with what, my reply?
Erick : yeah
Jen : it was toned down too
Jen : i did somn i never did before, i got advice from a therapist
Jen : about our situation
Erick : yeah?
Erick : what? Like online?
Jen : i told him everything
Jen : yeah
Erick : whatd he say?
Jen : my email to him was 56k
Erick : DAYUM
Jen : you really wanna know?
Erick : yeah
Jen : i got the reply this morning
Jen : after i had already pretty much made my decision
Jen : Jennifer – Get out of this. You are in a way vulnerable position. The odds are against you. He is obviously stringing you along, so he will have someone to fall back on in case his marriage goes bust. You deserve better. He is a selfish person, more concerned with his own happiness than anyone else’s. I can almost guarantee that he will never tell his wife the extent of his relationship with you, even though she has every right to know. It is unfair for him to keep her in the dark. A marriage doesn’t deteriorate on one side, both partners let it. I think the both of you would be better off without him. He may you, but not enough to leave his wife for you. Get out. You seem like a person that doesn’t really follow other’s advice. If you ignore my advice at least do this:
DO NOT move unless/until he at least separates from his wife. If he can’t do it before you move 600 miles to be with him, then don’t go. If he won’t leave her before you move he will never leave her after you move. He wants his cake and to eat it too. I can tell you love him dearly, but it is clear to me that you are setting yourself up for heartbreak.
Jen : that was it
Erick : mmmmmk
Jen : lol is that all you have to say?
Erick : Well, i disagree with some of the points he brought up
Jen : what do you think of his take of the situation?
Erick : and agree with others
Jen : you gonna elaborate?
Erick : You are in a way vulnerable position. – agree
Jen : me too
Erick : He is obviously stringing you along, so he will have someone to fall back on in case his marriage goes bust. – disagree
Erick : You deserve better. – agree
Jen : The odds are against you.–i agree
Erick : He is a selfish person, more concerned with his own happiness than anyone else’s. – disagree
Jen : I can almost guarantee that he will never tell his wife the extent of his relationship with you, even though she has every right to know.— i absolutely agree
Erick : DO NOT move unless/until he at least separates from his wife – agree
Jen : me too
Erick : So, what was your decision?
Jen : it keeps going back and forth
Jen : all day i had it in my head to let you go
Jen : but with it being so close to our 16 month ann
Jen : and a few other things, its gone back to limbo
Jen : actually i’ve had it in my head the last 3 days
Erick : Had what in your head? To let me go?
Jen : well monday it was an iffy day
Jen : i even made a pros and cons list
Jen : and a list of what i need in a partner
Jen : there was 29 pros & 13 cons
Jen : 4 of the cons were huge
Jen : but alot of the pros were important too
Jen : i just don’t want to make the wrong decision
Jen : i’m trying to weigh everything first
Erick : Maybe we should both do that
Erick : like, maybe, not have contact with each other for x amount of days….
Erick : and then come back & compare results
Jen : well that wouldn’t be fair
Jen : unless you didn’t have contact with manda for the same x amount of days
Erick : shit
Jen : its hardly fair to try to make a decision avoiding me, but being around her everyday
Erick : true
Jen : its bad enough we hardly talk anymore
Jen : i feel like i’m losing with each day
Jen : especially when you believe all we do is fight
Jen : but i’m done with begging
Jen : i have made my case the best i can
Erick : I know
Jen : trickie even gave me her imput
Erick : oh i bet that was good
Jen : well she read most of that email
Jen : at first she was all “you guys are perfect together” blah blah blah
Jen : then she read it
Jen : and got the same impression the dr did
Jen : she thought you had made your decision but didn’t have the heart to tell me
Jen : i told her i asked you that already
Jen : and you said you hadn’t yet
Jen : i wish i didn’t second guess myself so much
Erick : I know what you mean.
Jen : i hate to say it, but those that know the situation think i should move on
Jen : all except me
Jen : at least my heart
Erick : We both need to make a decision
Jen : yeah we do
Erick : I know.
Jen : all this uncertainty has had me lashing out at you
Jen : which is stupid cuz that’s pushing you closer to her… the opposite of what i want
Erick : And I havent been able to come to a concrete decision yet because I havent been able to think about it objectively
Jen : me either
Jen : just when i think i made a decison, i remember something about you
Erick : which is why Im sayin we need to sever contact with each other for a certain amount of time
Erick : but then, like you said
Jen : like i said before not talking to me for a certain amt of days, but being around her directly influences you
Jen : are you leaning toward a certain direction at all?

Jen : be honest
Jen : i need to know
Jen : don’t worry about my feelings
Jen : just tell me
Erick : Well, I am wanting to give manda a chance. for the fact that it is a committment I made years ago, time invested in it, you know…plus add anna into the mix…
Jen : i figured as much. advice is what you ask for when you already know the answer, but wish you didn’t. for the last week my instincts have been telling me to break it off…

Jen : well, however it turns out manda deserves to know
Erick : I know.
Jen : if there is any chance of yall having a real relationship again yall need to be completely honest with each other
Erick : Yes.
Jen if there is consequences take them like a man
Jen : you did her wrong
Jen : you did me wrong
Erick : I did you both…um..yeah
Jen : i have pretty much dealt with it
Jen : in reality affairs always come out
Jen : sooner or later
Jen : it would be best for her to hear it from you
Erick : Ive been thinking about that lately – telling her
Jen : don’t think me a bitch for this
Erick : No, not at all
Jen : but if you chose her and you tell her about the affair and if she kicks you to the curb don’t come crawling to me. i couldn’t take that
Erick : No, I wouldnt think of that
Jen :yall need to sit down and talk about everything
Erick : I dunno, i have too much pride to do somn like that I think
Erick : Yes, I know that
Jen : it seems only right for me to back out
Jen : you have chosen her, at least on a subconscious level
Erick : Im still not sure if working things out with her is worth it. I need time to think. I love you Jen.
Jen: sometimes that isn’t enough Erick. I think it’s best if we cut our losses and sever ties now.
Erick: Id still like to maintain some kind of friendship with you, but…..thats not going to be possible, is it?
Jen : no
Jen : it would be a constant reminder to me of what could have been
Jen : and i will have resentment toward you
Erick : I understand
Jen : more than i already have
Jen : i resent you for leading me to believe things all these months
Jen : then backing out when it was almost realized
Erick : Jen, for what its worth….Im so sorry for everything that Ive put you through. Im so ashamed of myself for letting it happen in the first place.
Jen : and the fact that all she has done to make you question our relationship was be nice to you… that cheapens our whole relationship to me
Erick : This isnt me.
Jen : and the fact that you didn’t have any problem having with me a few weeks ago
Jen : that was wrong
Jen : i feel like a foolish toy
Erick : No, please dont
Jen : i guess i just tried to hard
Jen : i really believed you didn’t love her anymore
Jen : i wish i just had to be nice to someone to make them love me again
Jen : have you had sex with her?
Erick : no
Jen : crazy, i ended up making the decision i thought i was in limbo from again
Jen : well everyone else will be happy
Jen : i hope yall can things out
Jen : despite everything i still want you to be happy
Erick : Jen, I want that for you too.
Erick : More than you know
Jen : i just wish you hadn’t strung me along so long
Jen : it’d be easier on me
Erick : I didnt mean to string you along at all. It was a combination of my indecisiveness and of hurting you. I love you so much and seeing you in this much pain hurts me so bad.
Jen : i’m not going to lie, i am hurting alot right now.
Jen : yeah but you should have told me when you made the choice
Jen : not have waited until i made the decision
Erick : I should have. youre right.
Erick : I just didnt want to hurt you.
Erick : You dont deserve to be hurt like this.
Jen : when did you make the choice?
Erick : I was just waiting for some kind of miracle that would make it not hurt, I guess.
Jen : brb i need some tissue
Erick : Not long ago. Couple of days really.
Jen : why were you lying to me then?
Jen : that was cruel
Erick : No.
Erick : Like I said, trying to think of a way to make it less painful for you
Jen : why did you have sex with me?
Erick : Jen, Im so sorry.
Erick : I hadnt made up my mind at that point
Jen : i’m not saying this to be mean, but every serious point of convo we have had you have been lying about, how can i believe you?
Jen : you swore to me you wouldn’t lie to me anymore
Erick : I also said I wouldnt hurt you anymore
Erick : I guess to me it wasnt lying, just, i dunno, delaying things until I could find a way not to make it hurt
Erick : I know it sounds stupid
Jen : the longer you waited the more it hurts
Jen : i feel absolutely worthless, rejected
Erick : I know..and for some reason for some fucking reason I thought it would make things easier
Erick : Jen, no, please dont feel that way
Jen : over someone that has treated you like shit for over 2 years and a few weeks of her being civil makes up for everything
Jen : that makes me feel like total shit
Jen : i have bent over backwards to make you happy
Jen : the min she is nice you blow me off
Jen : that was wrong
Jen : it makes me wonder if you ever really loved me
Jen : if you did you wouldn’t have killed our relationship over something that may not even be worked out anyway
Jen : how could you want to stay friends?
Jen : what did i do wrong?
Erick : Oh Jen
Erick : You didnt do one single thing wrong
Erick : It was me
Erick : My stupidity
Erick : My indecisiveness
Jen : i have my you the center of my world for so long…… what do i do now?
Jen : 16 months down the toilet
Jen : our future together right along with it
Erick : Thats the reason I wanted to try to maintain a friendship
Erick : so the past 16 months wouldnt have been spent totally in vain. I need you in my life at least as a friend
Jen : do you have any idea what the thought of you with her does to me?
Jen : talking to you day after day knowing you’re with her and not me… i couldn’t bear that
Jen : it would be a constant reminder of what a fuck up i am
Erick : You didnt fuck up Jen
Erick : I did
Erick : We both know that
Jen : i knew better
Jen : but i bought into it
Jen : i’m just as much to blame as you
Jen : fuck me once on you
Jen : fuck me twice shame on me
Jen : its shame on me time
Erick : No, because I let it happen
Jen : i should have followed my instincts when i found out you were married
Jen : but i loved you so much
Jen : and i had this stupid idea in my head that you really loved me and we would eventually be together
Jen : i’m such a fucking fool
Erick : No youre not
Jen : everyone kept telling me, but my stubborn ass just wouldn’t listen
Erick : That doesnt make you a fool
Jen : what did it get me?
Jen : yes it does
Erick : No, it doesnt

Jen : i went against my own better judgment
Jen : i thought i had learned my lesson about listening to my heart before
Jen : i was wrong
Jen : at least it took me almost a year and a half to let myself fall again
Jen : never again
Jen : it may be good for awhile
Jen : but it always ends
Jen : and i can’t stand the feelings that come with it
Erick : Jen, youre going to find someone that will truly make you happy, I know in my heart that this is true.
Jen : i know time will heal it
Jen : but that doesn’t do shit for what i feel right now
Jen : right now, i have no idea how i’m going to face the world tomorrow

Jen : i’m not trying to make you feel bad
Jen : but you have been my best friend among other things for so long
Erick : I think everyone was expecting this day would come
Jen : and even that will be gone after tonight
Jen : i’m not talking about that
Erick : Youve been mine as well, Jen
Jen : remember when we almost broke up before and you said that when we fight and stuff and you think you are going to lose me you want to hurt yourself…
Jen : i’ve always been that way
Erick : Oh Jen, please, Im begging you, do not do that
Jen : i know
Jen : but i’m hurting so bad
Erick : Im not worth you doing any kind of harm to yourself, especially when none of this is your fault
Jen : i just want it to go away
Erick : Please, Jennifer, swear to me you wont do anything like that
Erick : Please
Jen : i wouldn’t want that on your conscience
Erick : Thats not why Im saying it
Jen : i’ll survive, i always do
Jen : just slightly more embittered
Erick : Im not evil, just stupid
Erick : very very stupid
Jen : you still have someone
Jen : be thankful
Erick : Youll find someone
Erick : I know this
Jen : i don’t want to
Jen : everytime i’ve tried it blows up
Jen : i don’t settle
Jen : i’ve never met anyone that i had the same connection with
Jen : i know you don’t take it seriously, but i do — even our astrology charts said soulmates
Jen : if i can’t have that, why bother
Jen : i’m not going to settle
Jen : ever hear the quote, don’t settle for the one you can live with, fight for the one you can’t live without?
Erick : yes
Jen : case in point
Jen : i have felt pain from breakups before, but nothing like this
Erick : You can live without me, you have before.
Jen : before i knew you
Jen : how can i go back to that?
Erick : I wish I could give you some kind of comfort
Erick : Ive wished that from the very beginning
Erick : Seems all I do is make things worse.
Jen : you shouldn’t have led me to believe you were going to leave her for me
Jen : i was ready to throw away everything for you
Erick : I shouldnt have lead myself to believe it either. I was going to leave. I never lied about that.
Erick : I wasnt playing with you, Jen
Jen : if you meant it, how could you let her civility toward you change it?
Jen : there had to be something more than that
Erick : Well, we are married. We had to have had some kind of meaningful connection at a point to commit to it. I guess I just thought about that.
Jen : please tell me there was, i can’t bear rejection over just her being civil, let me keep the last shred of dignity i have left… i had pretty much made this decision but a foolish part of me actually thought you would pick me and this worrying would have been over nothing.
Jen : why the hell didn’t you think of that before you fucked me?
Jen : you knew what you were doing
Jen : i let you make the choice
Erick : I wanted to see if I had just let things fade,
Erick : I dont know
Jen : i’m so fucking pathetic
Erick : No you arent!
Erick : Stop thinking that
Jen : at least this happened the 3rd instead of the 4th
Jen : erick you better tell her
Jen : she deserves to know
Erick : I will.
Jen : i wish you wouldn’t have promised to leave her for me
Jen : it gave me a false sense of security
Erick : I wished I would have been certain when I had promised
Jen : what will you do if she rejects you during your heart to heart?
Jen : before you tell her about me
Erick : I dont know
Jen : brb i need more tissue
Erick : Jen, please beleive me that I never meant for any of this
Erick : I really cant express how sorry I am.
Jen : i know
Jen : believe me i’m sorry too
Jen : i still feel like it was my fault
Jen : i should have seen it coming
Erick : You are such an amazing person. I care for you more than you want to hear right now, im sure.
Jen : i should have had a realistic take on your feelings for me
Jen : not as amazing as your wife obviously
Jen : i tried so hard to keep you happy
Jen : i did my absolute best
Erick : I know
Erick : I know you did
Jen : i don’ t have the heart to open myself up to the possibility of another man
Erick : I hope in time you will, Jen. Theres someone out there that can make you happy…truly happy, and it would be a shame to not find that person due to what I did
Jen : it was hard enough letting myself get attached to you after what ray did…. but this (i know you didn’t mean to) this makes what ray did seem like nothing.
Jen : it took me a year and a half to let myself find love after ray
Erick : Im so sorry, jen. i cant say it enough.
Jen : me and ray were only together for a total of 4 months
Jen : we were together 4 times that
Jen : i know
Jen : i’m sorry you feel that way
Jen : but i can’t shut the pain off
Jen : i wish i could
Erick : I know. I wish I could help
Erick : I want to so much
Erick : But I dont think theres anything I can say to make it better.
Erick : So far, everything Ive said has made it worse
Jen : i’m so sorry you have to listen to this
Jen : i don’t want to hurt you
Erick : dont be sorry for the way you feel
Jen : i hope you don’t live to this night
Jen : we set each other free
Jen : another old saying — if you love something set it free if it comes back it is yours; if it don’t then it was never yours in the first place…
Erick : Ive heard that one
Jen : i doubt if we would reconcile though
Erick : It wouldnt be the same
Jen : I would wonder if you were coming back because she turned you down
Jen : i wish i knew her secret
Jen : made you miserable for like 2 years and you still love her
Jen : i guess i understand how you can
Jen : despite everything that has happened i’ll always love you
Jen : at least part of me
Jen : i just want to die
Erick : No
Jen : or crawl into a hole
Jen : i know you need to go to bed, so i will let you go.
Erick : Will you be alright?
Jen : yeah
Erick : ok.
Jen : goodbye erick
Erick : What are you taking?
Erick : And how manY?
Jen : nerds
Erick : Promise me theyre just nerds?

yada, yada, yada – if you read my Near Death entry then you know the rest of the story.

On this day..